Control Freak Conversations
an amazing display of buffoonery in four emails
(editorially riffed by Jadesyren and Nataliep)
Meet Slimey Prick:
I am writing to you after first my five year old daughter and then my wife
saw your site, and I would like to say what you are publishing on the
internet disgusts me. Are you aware that young children can easily access
your site. You may think what you write is fine, but frankly I (and I'm
sure most responsible parents) do not want my daughter growing up with those
kinds of ideas.
[Some say it takes a village to raise a child. Some of you require a village. Slimey, the world is a dangerous place. There are libraries lurking out there to fill your child's head with forbidden knowledge. There is a T.V. RIGHT IN YOUR OWN HOME, just waiting to spread filth and perversion so commonly found on "educational" programming. Only an absolute fool would allow his five-year-old to operate a computer unassisted, but it's dopes like you that keep the repairmen in business. You're not a responsible parent, Slimey; you're a control freak.]
Contarary to your opinions it is quite possible for women to grow up and be
"empowered" without subscribing to all your "male hateing" crap.
[We don't hate males, Slimeball, just controlling fuckers like you who feel magnanimous because they "allow" freedom.]
I have been
happily married for just under ten years now and my wife does not work,
[Note that YOU have been happily married for just under ten years. Your wife would have to be the Stepford model to say the same, unless her goal was to be a kept woman.]
this does not mean she's powerless and "oppressed". She looks after the
children and the house while I go off to work; I bring in the money for the
detatched house, the new cars and christ knows how many beauty products.
[God forbid she should forget any of that. You'll be trading her in for the latest model before her perm dries out.]
think its fair, and hardly oppressive, to expect her to keep the kids sorted
and look good. You see, between normal people, a partnership is possible.
Where men and women are equal, but different. Whats wrong with that?
[Your false analogy, for one thing. An equal partnership is not one that involves one spouse "bringing home the bacon" while the other spouse is "expected" to play the pretty little housewife. Equality would be if she CHOSE this. Being told what you must do is far from an equal position. When you tell someone what you expect them to do, and you didn't come to a mutual agreement, you don't have equality, no matter what you call it. And "agreement" to conditions based on economic dependence isn't equality either.]
I appreciate that whatever I say I'm highly unlikely to change your approach
to life and men (you've probably had some bad experiences) but I would
[Gotta love armpit psychology. I'll bet your wife is on an antidepressant, and you convince yourself that all "happy, well-adjusted" women are. Good thing you got that net nanny in place. Wifey might find that article on emotional abuse and start seeing things that threaten the status quo....]
request that you place warnings for entry to your site. Whatever you say, it
is not appropriate for young children, and there should be clear warnings
about what the site contains.
[Why don't you say what you REALLY mean, Slimey? Stop using your child as a shield.
I know, how about THIS?
Warning: This site might actually challenge your belief systems. It
might challenge you to think outside of socially-stereotyped boxes. It
might whack you upside the head for believing everything you are spoon-fed
by the media. It might LAUGH at you for not thinking for yourself and
and/or acting like a Neanderthal. To this we suggest one of two things:
Wake up, or COPE. If this page offends you, you don't have to read it.
THAT ought to stop the little tykes from having their parent's
dogma challenged eh?]
Thank you very much for the response to my email, it caused quite a few
laughs for the guys here in the office.
[If you can't discredit the opinion, discredit the person who has it, eh, Slimey?]
Although I was quite offended by
some of the things you both said and assumed about me. You should not just
assume that stereotypes actually apply to real people's lives.
[Pot. Kettle. Black.]
[Your hypocrisy aside, our stereotype-o-meter would have pegged you as American. Given that you appear to
be a Brit, it just goes to show that depth-challenged control freaks come from all cultures.]
The first was that you accused me of being a negligent parent, now I don't
know if you have kids but thats a serious accusation. As to quite how my
[Deadly serious. Stop slacking on the job. Don't expect the world to protect your child; that's YOUR job. We weren't there when you knocked up your wife, after all.]
daughter ended up on your site I'm not sure, my wife was the one who found
her on it. Secondly, I know she didn't understand any of it, but it made us
[Looks like your wife wasn't "keeping the kids sorted" in line with *your* expectations... Sounds like trouble in paradise, Slimey-boy.]
think. What happens if she looks it up at age ten, or twelve, then its more
serious. I know you don't agree on this, but the kind of "values" you are
suggesting women adopt are not the kind we want our daughter to adopt.
[Hmmm... values like honesty, personal responsibility, equality, no
sexual manipulation, hard work and independence? She might learn that there is more to life
than being pretty so that someone else can take care of her. She might
learn that some people respect brains and capabilities more than looks.
She might learn that basing your self-esteem on appearance is pretty
hollow. She might actually grow up thinking she doesn't HAVE to care
about being pretty or thin or wearing makeup or barfing up her lunch so
she can be a size zero. She might get the idea that she could be anything
she wanted to be, and have her OWN money (that SHE earned) and her own
life without being dependent on someone else. She might even decide that
she doesn't want to pump out babies.
Yep. I can see how that
would really rock your world. Truth is, we would like everyone to be
PERSONALLY responsible and to think for themselves. I am not responsible
for your daughter's intelligence. She must have been adopted.]
As for keeping kids of the internet, do you suggest I lock up the computer?
[I suggest you bludgeon it with a hammer first. OR, you could simply return it to the store from which you purchased it and explain that you and your wife are simply too stupid to properly operate it.
You DO lock up the drawer with all the sex toys, don't you?]
Although we have now put the "nanny" in action, although frankly that
shouldn't have to be done.
[You're right. She should have the freedom to see all the filth the internet has to offer without parental supervision. You're just afraid that you'll lose control of your females if they read us. I'm sure you have a link readily available to something that your kid REALLY shouldn't see. I wonder how much luck you have complaining to THOSE sites.]
I'm not going to get back into whether the content of your site is good or
bad as I think we will both disagree on that whatever is said. I will
however take exception at the way you try to present my marriage, using
words like "emotional abuse". I take that very seriously, and have never
done anything like that.
[And you, of course, are the best non-biased opinion. I've yet to meet an abuser that said that they were abusive. Even Ike Turner said that he only slapped Tina a little when she wasn't smiling.]
It annoys me that in this counrty today its assumed by the liberal
"politically correct" that any women who's married, doesn't work and has a
man support her is abused or "oppressed".
[That impression came when you said that you expected her to be the little woman.]
Had it not possibly occured to you
that women could actually choose that life? My wife actually decided when my
wage got high enough that she didn't want to work anymore, I didn't just
lock her up in the house one day.
[What YOU said was that you expected her to sort out the children and look good doing it. Don't blame us when your own words get the better of you. Shoot the messenger.]
We, and many others, then do have a proper
partnership. I do not agree with situations where men force women not to
work, but when you can afford it and the women wants to stay home and look
after the kids why should that be seen as a problem? In fact I think it
preferable, its called division of labor.
[It's really a shelter for a woman who is afraid to fail or try. One of the biggest fallacies perpetuated in western society is that there's an easy out through "motherhood."]
As for being afraid of my wife seeing your site, to quote her "feminism's
just for women who don't look good enough". I'm not necessarily saying its
true, but then again you don't see any supermodel feminists do you.
[I'm happy that you found someone as shallow as you are, Slimey, ol' buddy. Time, that tyrant, marches ever on and so much of female beauty relies on youth. I just wonder where she'll be when her looks run out, and they will. She'll probably be on some therapist's couch, while you are out testdriving a newer model...]
Thank you so much for your latest response, and I have to say it was as
interesting (and insulting) as the one before it. You have a way with words
and a seemingly natural ability to piss me off.
[That's because you don't like a woman that's innately smarter than you. You're intimidated by us. We give you the sneaking suspicion that you suck. Go with it.]
First point, you say I'm "a Brit". I can only assume you found that one out fom my Hotmail profile, must have really rattled your cage for you to go that far!
[No, we do a standard search of trolls to see if they have done this to someone else. Actually, it's pretty simple to tell where an email address is coming from. But oh, that's right, you and wifey are internet techno-twits. (Yes, we even know that you send these messages from your hotmail account while at work).]
I'll skip all the bits where you inslult my ability as a parent, as
[You'd have to possess them to have them insulted.]
basically you have no idea what you are talking about. I will also make an
assumption that you do not have children, and if you did you would have a
little more understanding for my point. It is impossible to watch your child
every moments of the day.
[Now who's stereotyping? You don't have to be a parent to know that you can't expect everyone ELSE to raise your young'un. You open up every argument with the kiddie hot-button, but it's just a red herring.
Your point boils down to you being inefficient as a parent, and lazy to boot. If you can't manage a five-year-old, she'll be pregnant at fifteen, Slimey. Do you see the difference? When you treat your wife as if she were your daughter that can only mean a few things. One of those things is too sick to talk about. Another aspect is that you have such a young wife that she COULD have been your daughter. Finally, you just feel so inferior to women that you have to control them...all the time. Speaking of your wife, what IS she doing that she can't be bothered to monitor what your child is doing? She can't need THAT many touch-ups.]
What really racked me off from your latest attack was the bit about me
disrespecting my wife and the assumptions you made about both her and me. I
[Are you saying that you heretofore recant your previous letters? We DO have a disclaimer about sending us mail, Slimey. If you missed that disclaimer, how in hell do you expect us to believe you'd get any other?]
wish I'd missed the line "christ knows how many beauty products" out now, it
was misleading. I would much rather my wife spent my money and looked good
than looked like some womens studies lecturer.
[It's so much more valuable to be beautiful than smart, and the people who set up their value system on those beliefs are simply a joy to be around.
Basically, since you would prefer this, "christ knows how many beauty products" isn't misleading at all. You just don't like the smell of your own implications, and they ARE pretty stinky.]
About duties, yes I suppose
we have duties. I expect my wife to look good, yes, and look after the
children, at the same time she expects me to bring the money in and pay the
bills. Its a partnership. You talk about women relying on their looks being
in some way weaker than men,
[She can't leave you. She's set herself up to be a parasite her whole life, and you are more than happy to have her this way. You couldn't be more prehistoric if you hobbled her. Frankly, I'm glad the two of you found each other.]
well thats not the truth. In my job I'm paid
for my brain, God gave me that brain just the same way as he gave me arms
etc, how is that different to appearane?
[Unless you're a model, you don't earn a living by appearance. Even as a model, you've got to use some intelligence to manage your career. You're the bonehead if you can't see this. P.S. Having legs and arms or other functional equipment that comes standard with the human model has nothing to do with slathering on wax to remove excess hair.]
Sure, I went to university and
learnt some long words, but equally women wear make up and add to their
[You're pulling my leg. You think that Avon and the Bard of Avon are of equivalent value?]
Equally I don't assess brain power by qualifications or job title.
[That's called rationalization, Slimey.]
I've done a degree in Economics and Sociology and can honestly say that some of the lecturers were the dumbest people I've ever met.
[I can tell by the quality of their output.]
To judge someone by that criteria is crazy, its just learnt use of language.
[NOW I know why we get under your foreskin.]
Equally, do you actually think everyone has equal access to education? You intellectual feminists should remember that when you judge the rest of the world, not all women (or men) have opportunities to be doctors, lawyers etc.
[Which is why they hide in the mommie-shelter instead of forging a career despite the odds.]
Frankly, I think the option of relying on your looks and being a housewife and living in a large detached house with all the modern appliances, driving a new car and perhaps looking good is alot better than the alternative of receptionist/ secretary etc, would you not agree?
[Slimey, I would not degrade anyone in those positions. While a woman might be working hard to earn a living, her life is her own. I have known some women that have turned their backs on the life of the "kept woman" simply because their values were more than skin deep. Your wife isn't one of them, and that's probably why you picked her. Tell us Slimey, is she also expected to swallow?]
Your final paragraphs are equally flawed. You talk about power, and how it
comes from men depending on how attractive they think she is. Well, its
[The beauty that you are talking about, Slimey, is in the eyes of the beholder, not the beholdEN. This means that your wife never gets a chance to discover what she likes about herself without the guides that society imposes. In short, she is only treated well so long as others perceive her beauty as such, and as a quality worth merit.]
actually the same with brains. I have a girl straight out of university
working under me,
[Heh heh heh. Case closed. Thank you, Dr. Freud.]
and whether or not she's employed in a years time depends
on what I think of her brain. And that assessment is totally subjective, she
know she's got to make sure she behaves in a way that I think is
intelligent. Just like I had to with my bosses. Ie, she is totally dependant
on my assessment, even though it has nothing to do with her appearance.
There is no criteria of "intelligent", its jsut the interpretations of
[Oh no. Intelligence is not some totally amorphous entity. Intelligence can be measured, and not by those I.Q. tests. While people have different aptitudes, you can tell if they are competent. You just LOVE the idea of women that depend on you, however.]
About my wife's courage, well I think she might be able to dare herself to
read your site. (That was until we decided to put up the net nanny!).
[Are we talking about your wife or your daughter, or are they the same person? Or are you telling me she doesn't know how to operate the Net Nanny? Yeeks.]
if she's got an email address, we have a famiuly address (which this is
[Quite obviously it's not. It's for writing us from the office while your employer mistakenly assumes that they are paying you to do real work. Not to mention that it's from an account you wife doesn't have access to...not that she could ever figure out how to access it, bless her Mary-Kay encrusted heart.]
Also from experience, she is quite capable of speaking for herself;
although, of course, we have similar views. People, as a rule, tend not to
marry people the disagree with.
[This is empty because she's NOT speaking for herself. You want us to assume that she agrees with you because she's married to you. If what you say is true, the divorce rate wouldn't be over 50%.]
Fourth and Final Email.
Loved that last email, truly classic. You really are incredible, I went through four years in a department with some of the best know feminist writers and never once met anyone who was quite so dogmatic as you. Congratulations!! You should try for a job in 'Women's Studies' at a university, they'd take you on any day, you'd be brilliant.
You go Girl!!
[Was this supposed to be insulting?]
Now down to business, and after what you've said the gloves are off baby.
[Amazing. It only took three tries. Laughably, the only person at risk from those ungloved hands is YOU, Slimey. Got tired of wearing "rubbers" when you masturbate about us?]
I'll just touch on the disrespect business, and your claims about my hatred of women. I'll spell it out to you once more, I respect my wife. Get it. I respect her for what she is, not some stereotype. About hating women, that's total and complete crap. In fact, I love women.
[Of COURSE you do. You think every man should have one.]
I find them fun, interesting and incredible;
[Like what you can order from the Sharper Image Catalogue.]
and contrary to you opinion I do not see women's role as necessarily in the home.
[Just your woman, you he-man woman-hater you.]
Sure, for some women that's what they want,
[And you are the expert in what women REALLY want.]
others want to go out and make money etc. That's great with me, and I know many perfectly decent women who do work who do not take it upon themselves to ram home how independent and in control they are.
[Decent doesn't equal autonomous.]
It's a very insecure women in my opinion who does that, its 2001; women have jobs and in the West largely equal opportunities (depending on class).
[Even the poorest woman can aspire to be a doctor now.
It's fascinating that just a few paragraphs down in this letter you contradict this statement and advocate marital prostitution instead of women having careers... You just can't keep your rhetoric straight, can you?]
There's no need to keep ramming it home, that is unless you want to be men?
[No, just equal. Remember, that was YOUR point, your noble purpose, and the camouflage for your marital prostitution enslavement. You don't see that now, you think you're the kind benefactor. When she starts showing routine wear and tear, and you trade her for the better, younger model, what future will she have? She'll be depending on your support even after the marriage, all because she'll have no recent or relevant work history.]
I remember one horrible and frightening sociologist who actually argued that it was possible to bring boys and girls up so that they were basically the same, do you really want that?
[Yes. I'd love to see little boys wearing pink and playing with dolls with reckless abandon.]
Next there's your claim that one day my daughter will be bulimic. That's an incredible thing to say,
[Odds aren't in her favor. If you value something as trivial as physical beauty above all, (and are clearly teaching her that the best possible way for a woman to succeed is by hooking a man through her appearance), then she will spend most of her adult life starving to stay thin and risking dangerous surgery to stay young. Kind of like your wife. I'll bet dollars to donuts that she's got a closet eating disorder of her own.]
it really is. Neither me nor my wife have or will ever give the idea that being skinny is more important than healthy (in fact I do not find skinny Kate Moss style girls slightly attractive),
[Kate Moss is an extreme. If you like the "look" of 95% of Hollywood starlets OR supermodels, you find eating disorders attractive.]
If anything the example will be set that its important to look after your body.
[subtext: So that a *man* will find you attractive.]
I have no idea where you got the idea that I could even think of encouraging my daughter to do that.
[I've got three e-mails of your own words.]
As for TV, yes I know there are worrying images of waif like women on it and that's something that has to be lived with. Personally, I find them totally unattractive and think they all look more like men, as do most of the guys I know, so if (shock horror) my daughter does one day choose to try and please a man I don't think he'll want her as a bulimic. If he does, then I'll sort him out.
As for the breast implants; what's wrong with improving a good thing?
[And I rest my case.]
I then take major exception about how you talk about equal opportunities, "everyone has a chance". I don't know where you come from (although I can guess) but in the north of England that really is not how things are. You see, we have this thing called class and private schools. I
[I guess it's good to be a Yank, or a Canadian eh?]
know from experience that as a kid from a rural area with a regional accent, parents who have to work and having gone to a state school, doors are very definitely closed. For instance, to get on the university course I did I had to get 4 A's at A Level (which I did), but the guys from Eton and
the like were let on with something like 3 C's. That's not equal, there were certainly no working class girls. In fact I only got in because I managed to talk a local politician into putting a good word in for me, all the other A grade students from the north got turned down. All my friends from school then went to crappy third rate colleges and as a result now earn less than a quarter what I do and work just as hard, if they'd have been to Eton they'd be making more than me right now.
Funny, only those people who haven't studied at top level institutions actually think that "we have as much access as we want and are willing to put in the effort for"
[But YOU did, right? I mean, if not for all your effort, where would you be? You might not have worked so hard, however, if you had motherhood, sexual favors and the ability to have someone ELSE bring home the bacon, to fall back on.]
I therefore do not consider a women in the kind of town I came from who exploits her looks as being anything but very smart.
[Manipulative. Smart is a different kettle of fish. You're learning that now, I expect. While we are on the subject, prostitutes exploit their looks too. They just don't marry the stupid johns.]
It's no fun being poor, in fact it hurts. You talk about self respect being worth more; then why is it that pretty much every survey shows that people (particularly women) on low incomes are the most depressed.
[Poverty DOES suck, but this analogy is worse than anything else is. Women have more choices than being poor or some rich guy's whore.]
Frankly, I don't consider the "dumb trophy wife" as dumb at all; you play the game with what you got, only thing that matters is that you don't lose. A "dumb trophy" that divorces a rich guy gets a hell of a lot more than an 'independent' check out girl.
[That career choice has been around longer than some religions. Some of us value ourselves more than mere money.]
As to whether you would make that decision in that position, I don't all together buy your "nope". You are not a women in her early forties who's single, overweight and has a part time job at a supermarket; then the world would look very different.
[I wouldn't cash in my brain for your gilded cage. Money, after all, is cheap.]
I grew up amongst people like that, and I know that for women in that situation its impossible to have self respect because what is there to respect?
[And you're the big, dumb hero rescuing her from that fate, "allowing" her to have freedom. In my experience the women with the WORST self-esteem are those that
allow themselves to remain in relationships with control freaks.]
I do not necessarily mean that as my lack of respect, rather wider societies outlook, the outlook of people like you proposing that that the opportunity really is there for everyone if you have the dedication.
[Ahem. Worked for you.]
Presumably, then, these women have no dedication. Women in that position have nothing, no looks, no man and no respect for their intellect.
[Obviously ranked in YOUR perceived order of importance. You are a gem Slimey. You shoot yourself in the foot at every opportunity.]
That's reality in today's world, you may not like it or have experience of it but that's it. The reaches of feminism don't go that far, in fact I've never met a women in that position who's had anything good to say about independent "career women"; the general consensus is that it would be much better married with kids and perhaps relying a bit on a man.
[I see. You've taken a flippant comment and made it the core of your argument. We've all said that we'd love to marry a rich OLD man and inherit. We all say we'd love to hit the lottery, too. We don't say that because we feel it's the Cinderella fantasy. We say it because everyone jokes about having an easier life. The price you'd have to pay is just too steep. It's a Cinderella fallacy. A gilded cage is still a cage. A pedestal is still a small, narrow place to stand on. This is like saying that you'd like to live on a deserted island when the people around you are getting on your nerves. It should never be taken seriously.]
I'll just quickly then give you an opinion of my old economics professor who'd been a CEO of a very large UK multi-national. "All this women's rights stuffs great, we just get to keep wages down". You see, its the very simple laws of supply and demand. The only people who are benefiting from more women in the workplace (who like men are predominantly in low paid jobs) are employers who are now able to pay less.
[Of course you blame women for daring to want to work instead of employers who found an easy way to cut wages.]
We then come onto the subjectivity of intelligence and my poor female employee who has to slave away under her "self-important buffoon" boss. I'm sat on a train, and I'm laughing out loud reading that, the guy sat next to me must think I'm crazy. In the company I work in we take on around ten university graduates every year, and thanks to "positive" discrimination 50% of those have to be women regardless of their grades. The situation then is that only 50% will be retained at the end of the year, out of the 10 usually at least 8 are competent, therefore three will lose their jobs purely on their bosses assessment of their intelligence. Now, that's totally subjective.
[I guess you Brits are dumber than you look. In America, we have ways of measuring aptitude that are far less subjective than your opinion of the overall intellect of the candidate. We don't have to measure intelligence to qualify a candidate for a position; we look at overall job performance. While that is still a bit subjective, it's hardly the same thing as letting someone go because they have no earthly idea where Cambodia is.]
A candidate (and I had to do this) must show that they 'fit in', and that means appealing to what your boss thinks is intelligent, I certainly know that what I
[The more I read of you, the muddier your definition of intelligence becomes. So far you've confused it with performance, competence, social skills, compatibility, manipulation, beauty, and that bog-water sucking logic you use.]
see as intelligent and desirable for the company is not the same as some of the other senior managers. I know I was very careful in that first year and a lot of what I said and did was dependent on my bosses opinion, if I'd have failed in that first year (as with anyone else) I'd have been consigned to second rate firms for the rest of my career.
That sounds rather like a women dressing up for a man; does he prefer blonde or black hair, skirts or jeans etc.
[Only when you use intelligence as a catchall phrase for "all things desirable in a human."]
Finally I'll address your notion of "things of value". I think that women who stay home and bring kids up do things that are of far more value than you typical career women.
[What about us typical career women who have children to bring up? And if devoting one's life to child-rearing is of such societal importance and VALUE, why aren't more men
staying home to do it? Oh... that's right -because in YOUR opinion, it's more valuable for a WOMAN to raise a child than contribute things like
a cure for cancer, or ensure justice is served, or design buildings to withstand earthquakes... Is it really a matter of "value" here, or is it just less threatening? ]
I mean, we've got this women at work who brings in a massive amount of money; she is truly using her skills and knowledge to support herself; but is it really of value.
[Is what YOU do of value?]
In my opinion my wife has contributed far more to society despite her 'dependence', use of cosmetics and non "career women" outlook.
[Just for dropping a child that neither one of you can be bothered to watch? If she doesn't have a job, tell me why she can't keep up with her? Must be all those beauty infomercials.]
As for my wife experiencing disillusionment as she hits her 30's, well she's not far off and doesn't appear particularly disillusioned. Probably because she has a very full and active social life, something a lot of the career women I know could do with!
[I hereby apologize for any:
fluid shot up a reader's nose.
staining of monitors from fluids spewed on it.
asthma attacks brought on by hysterical laughter.
Oh, I had a feeling that your young beauty queen hadn't hit thirty yet, but I'll bet that YOU have, with experience. Wait until she realizes that she's wasting her sexual peak on a man that will soon require Viagra.]
About why she's not expressing her opinion on this issue, probably because I haven't told her that
[Slimey, you are the ONLY one that doesn't know why your wife's not talking. It's because you haven't told her yet what to think on the subject.]
I'm exchanging emails with the women who hosts the 'bitch's' site. She does not let me speak for her if she has an opinion on something, just ask the teachers at open evening!
[We know that she "rules the roost" when it comes to the children, Slimey. Let's see if she makes any decisions about the way YOU spend your money.]