The "Nice Guys" archive

Comments - round 36
Comments - round 35
Comments - round 34
Comments - round 33
Comments - round 32
Comments - round 31
Comments - round 30
Comments - round 29
Comments - round 28
Comments - round 27
Comments - round 26
Comments - round 25
Comments - round 24
Comments - round 23
Comments - round 22
Comments - round 21
Comments - round 20
Comments - round 19
Comments - round 18
Comments - round 17
Comments - round 16
Comments - round 15
Comments - round 14
Comments - round 13
Comments - round 12
Comments - round 11
Comments - round 10
Comments - round 9
Comments - round 8
Comments - round 7
Comments - round 6
Comments - round 5
Comments - round 4
Comments - round 3
Comments - round 2
Comments - round 1.5
Comments - round 1
Nice Guys = BLEAH!
Nice Guys we can do without

The latest comments from and about Nice Guys...

From: "M R" <>
Subject: Loved your attack against Nice Guys. Great Site

Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 15:57:38 -0400

This article was really an eye opener.... I now realize that I really have to stop being such an insecure asshole. I hate those kind of people like "Geoff"

WHY do those kind of men have to pump the rest of us guys full of their pathetic insecurities? And it seems like they spend their WHOLE LIVES trying to do so. I hope Geoff gets hit by a truck

Great site,keep up the good work,

Sincerely, A pathetically short 5'8 guy

Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 01:10:52 -0400
From: Just_A Nice_Guy <>
Subject: A Theory


I'd like to state that I have a theory. I'll admit, yes, all the guys you meet probably ARE scum and idiots, however I think there is a cause. They don't all start out that way, but I think a good deal of it is because GIRLS KILL whatever niceness a guy has.

[Wah. Wah. Fucking Wah.]

Before you chalk this up as another flame,

[Too late. You are already in the "lame whiner" bin]

hear me out. From what I've seen 9 out of 10 girls who are roughly 16-25 gravitate towards assholes

[That's because you only notice the shallow damaged ones.]

Why? No clue. I've heard a few answers ranging from 'I do it to piss off my daddy' to 'He's too wimpy, I need a strong man.'. Now, I don't know if these are the ACTUAL reasons. I cant know that

All I know is that nice guys get rejected, dumped, shit on, used, and otherwise mistreated and mishandled.

[Break out the violins... Perhaps you should change the type of women you are attracted to. But to do that, YOU would have to face your own damage.]

Perhaps the nice guys go the way of the dodo simply because early on they're conditioned to think that all girls want are dickheads, then when they've finally made the full transformation, the girls have hit the age where they wise up and realize they MISS the nice guys

[Healthy women NEVER miss whiney "nice guys" - they always kick them to the curb. ]

~ signed, nice guy who is getting fed up with the bullshit hypocrisy.

[Maybe some day you'll get fed up enough to stop, look in a mirror, and see where the REAL problem is.]

(Hey, no offense. I DO get a laugh from your site here and there.)

Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:16:34 -0400
From: B fisher Subject: COMMENTS: Another nice guy comment (no flames here)

Hey heartless bitches! (haha)

I have some free time, I like writing, and I thought the site was worth commenting on... SO, thought I'd send an email (whether you read it, post it, or not).. ;)

I found your site through a thread on a message board which started as a simple post asking why women go after assholes... And then it developed into many, many pages of useless debating bringing up the same things over and over... It's a topic which is pretty much endless when it comes to debating. I skimmed though many of the Nice Guy comment pages and some people need to get a stick out of their ass, or something. I also enjoyed your responses to the more interesting ones

I love how the articles on this site are written and they get the point across very clearly and I actually agree with a lot of it

I don't think I'm a "full" Nice Guy(tm), but I did recognize some things on your site that I may be guilty of doing and I had wished I had seen this site earlier. People always say that I'm "so cute and nice", but I never have self-esteem in the relationship department and take positive criticism negatively. I'm a skinny guy and look younger than I am (maybe a few years), so I don't take "aww" and "cute" very well. I only try when I actually like someone (for personality as well *gasp*, something's wrong, haha) and don't always accept people who are interested in me. I'm getting more confidence in the area now and figuring out stuff I'm doing wrong, it's in the works now

I don't see myself as a clingy guy, but I think I may have come across it recently. I started "talking" to this girl at home while I was at college. Things were great and we talked all the time. She would tell me about how she hates clingy guys and how she's had so many of them in the past. Well, we would flirt all the time, and I thought something would eventually develop once I got home... Well, she met another guy and things - kind of - changed, but there was a little something still there. I think I may have showed -a little- too much interest, too soon with her (well, not really, but in talking) and I see the hints now. After he cheated on her (like her last boyfriend), she's seeing this other guy now and kind of told me that "we're just good friends". I think I made a few mistakes and I know how I'll treat the situation now. Who knows, it may help when I show no feelings towards her in the future (even though, yeah, they're still there)? hah. I shouldn't come across as needy though. I admit, I complain about girls with assholes, being able to get girls I don't want, and not getting the girls I do want (and when the "nice guy" in me might perk up). My last real girlfriend was the controlling type and I would always say "no". She liked me even more for that. Then after I broke up with her, she chased me even more

Didn't mean to tell a life story or something, but felt like someone reading could relate

You learn from your mistakes and I'm glad I found this site. I can change some things. I can recognize what I need to work on and I'll start right now. Your site really does help people. Thank you, heartless bitches. ;)

-B Age 20

Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 01:10:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rob <>
Subject: Comments> on your Nice Guy Post

I am sure that you receive a lot of e-mails saying that you are the "problem". I would like to thank you for opening my eyes to the real problem... ME. I found your page out of a google search. After reading your Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS page. I have come to realize that I am the one who needs to change. Thank you for the eye opener. You have described me to a tee. So thank you. there is one less loser out there trying to make everyone happy at my own expense



Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:41:29 -0700
From: Jeff Zugale <>
Subject: Ouch... great site

Hey, just wanted to say your site is excellent and hopefully it will help me get my shit together and be able to have a relationship with a great woman who's good for me. Don't know if I'll be successful - I'm learning very late, started off with a heavy disadvantage from bad programming and family life/upbringing. It's been a bunch of really hard lessons, but I'm trying. Keep up the good work!

Jeff Zugale

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 21:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry C.
Subject: Dear Bitch

Dear Bitch Supreme,

As a FNG-R (former nice guy, recovering) I found your site very refreshing. As I have learned to shed the bullshit of the (pseudo)-nice guy persona (aka passive agressive dope), I discovered that I really fucking hate when women I dated would not express what they were thinking/feeling...because that's what I used to do in my former life as a (ugh!) nice guy, I sucked it up to "keep the peace". It's like when I gave up smoking five years ago and suddenly found 2nd hand smoke revolting. Nowadays I'm always hopeful to encounter women who speak their minds!!!


PS:Fuck Bush, fuck his war

Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nice Guys

Dear Heartless Bitches,

I've been thinking about the "nice guys" issue. I have been a nice guy all my life, and only after many, many disappointing long-term "friendships" with women, and one long-term relationship that ended miserably a few months ago, I found your site and GOT CLUE. Before reading your site, I was always puzzled about why any woman would not want a boyfriend who is as nice as possible. I have been told I am "too nice", but I assumed that was an excuse from a woman who didn't want to hurt my feelings, and there was really something else wrong with me

How can anyone be too nice? If I was nice, and failed to get a girlfriend, and other people were jerks, and succeeded, those other people must be _much_ more attractive than me. Or women must just be masochists


Here's how I understand things now: nice guys are addicted to instant positive feedback. I had figured out that if I always smile and always agree with women, they will always smile and agree back at me

I didn't understand that this superficial response does not mean much. Of _course_ women will be nice back to me if I am nice to them. That doesn't mean they want to date me or always feel comfortable around me. They know instinctively that I am concealing my negative feelings, because _everyone_ has negative feelings

Yes, even nice guys have negative feelings; they just lie to themselves and others, and pretend they don't. (At least that's what I have been doing.) They think they are being "noble" and "self-sacrificing" by suppressing their anger until it boils out into a guilt trip. They think that "jerks" are not _capable_ of suppressing their anger, whereas nice guys are somehow gifted with this special ability to be nice that no one else has

But the truth is, a woman will want to date a man only if he reveals his true feelings and thoughts to her, both negative and positive. Because otherwise how can she trust him in a long-term relationship? You can't make someone trust you by being nice to them all the time; only by allowing them to see all sides of your true self

Nice guys make life very difficult for themselves. They work very hard to suppress all their negative emotions. They don't realize that when they actually get into a relationship, they will be much more emotionally involved with their girlfriend, and they will be unable to suppress all those negative emotions. That is why "nice guys turn into jerks" once you date them: they can't suppress their negative feelings seven days a week, 24 hours a day, although they may try. And when they discover they can't suppress their negative feelings, guess who they'll blame it on? That's right, their girlfriend. (Yep, I did that too.) They will think "I can be nice around everyone else, just not around her. There must be something wrong with _her_."

Here's a funny paradox: many "nice" guys I know (including me) are science / computer nerds. They understand that if you want to get better at math, you can't just take the easiest courses and get all A's. You can't pretend to understand when you don't. You can't be addicted to instant positive feedback. You have to honestly struggle to understand the math on its own terms, not just try to get good grades. You might say that you have to be "in touch with your own feelings" about the math

But when it comes to relationships, I didn't understand the same simple idea. Holding a door and getting a smile in exchange is like getting an easy A. Anyone can hold the door and get the smile, but doesn't help you get a girlfriend. You have to admit when you are angry, when you disagree, and so on. And don't expect instant positive feedback for it, either

Here's another funny paradox: In a way, nice guys really are confident

They are overconfident. They are so confident about being nice, that they will go on being nice in the face of all evidence that it isn't getting them a date. But they aren't confident that people will still like them in the long run if they express their dark side

[He seemed to have a clue for a bit there... but now he's just getting weird...]

By the way, what is the message of Star Wars? "Suppress your dark side

Don't show anger, fear, or negative emotions, because they will turn you into an evil killer." What is George Lucas trying to do, produce a generation of self-deceivers? Maybe that kind of self-discipline is important in politics, or religion, or somewhere in life. But I know from experience that it doesn't work in relationships

Have you ever wondered why women find Han Solo more attractive than Luke Skywalker? I mean, Luke is far more powerful with his lightsaber and Jedi moves . . . if it's about "macho fighting power," Luke wins hands down

But how can you trust Luke? He won't tell you when he's mad at you

Thanks for writing such a detailed essay on this subject. I saw myself in so many of your words: "they try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things," et cetera. I don't think I would have understood without your directness and clarity. Now I just have to put all these ideas into practice . .

[It's a shame he had to devolve into Star wars metaphors. *sigh* Sometimes it's just boils down to social skills. Or a lack thereof.]

From: "Christopher Peluso" <>
Subject: Good Comments
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 01:42:58 -0400

Well, for years I saw myself as a possibly-eternal "nice-guy." Never to get a date. I was also the stereotypical nerd, with the greasy hair, so that probably explains things a little better. I'm a little socially inept, but there's nothing wrong with that. I was still a nice guy, up until tonight, when I read about what "nice" really was. And then I read what a "heartless bitch" had to say about nice guys. First off, it's kind of a shame that they're portrayed as "evil, cynical, hearless bitches," however, they're the ones who speak truth, instead of laying it down easy. Whoever created this site, thank you very much. I no longer think I must be an asshole. I did already know women are just humans, all with flaws and should NOT be worshipped, etc., etc. Basically, I'm saying that just through several parts of the site and your point has already gotten across to me. I will not deny, however, that many nice guys go as unsung heros, but sooner or later, they'll catch on and get what they deserve. My time was now and all I can say is thank you

So Thank You,

Formerly "Nice" but Always Grateful,

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