The "Nice Guys" archive

Comments - round 36
Comments - round 35
Comments - round 34
Comments - round 33
Comments - round 32
Comments - round 31
Comments - round 30
Comments - round 29
Comments - round 28
Comments - round 27
Comments - round 26
Comments - round 25
Comments - round 24
Comments - round 23
Comments - round 22
Comments - round 21
Comments - round 20
Comments - round 19
Comments - round 18
Comments - round 17
Comments - round 16
Comments - round 15
Comments - round 14
Comments - round 13
Comments - round 12
Comments - round 11
Comments - round 10
Comments - round 9
Comments - round 8
Comments - round 7
Comments - round 6
Comments - round 5
Comments - round 4
Comments - round 3
Comments - round 2
Comments - round 1.5
Comments - round 1
Nice Guys = BLEAH!
Nice Guys we can do without

The latest comments from and about Nice Guys...

From: Marvin Holman
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005
Subject: Comments on being a total wuss and a nice guy

I know with a title like that you can see that my self-esteem is at a low, but it is true. I have been a wuss when it comes to relationships and women for all of my life

Let me explain: My name is Marvin and for my 28-years on this earth, I have been totall y afraid of women, maybe not of them, but their reactions to me

See I can't fully come up to a woman and just talk to her. I feel that my shyness is from a fear of rejection. It's understandable, but eery time I try to start something, the girl gets a bf or I wasn't aggressive or I get too pushy or I'm just not the right type.

That stuff can get you over the edge in a way, because you do feel that no one wants you. So I rebelled by coming up with a identity that I can hide behind: A nice guy

I think I am a nice guy -- I never committed a crime, I work two jobs and I think I have a good personality. But since the combination of rejection and unwillingness to try for months at a time always comes into play, it seems that I am just an afterthought

That's why I tried to rally back in personals and in blogs that I was a nice guy and you women don't see that I am good and I'm willing to be there for you no matter what, but no one was feeling that at all

Then I took a look at your site and the section on nice guys and it was so mind-blowing to me because almost everything you and the other writers said were on the money about me. In reality, I make most connections with women with my computer and I never really tried to go out and since I'm a wuss, I never had the chance to just go up to any random stranger and say Hello, I'm Marvin how are you??

Also I saw a section called redflag and I believe before all of the situations, you said if a significant other has at least two of these traits, leave now. Well I went through tthat list and I found out that I had more than two of these traits

So now I'm freakingout because all of my habits have come back and it has shown an unattractive side that can easily deactivate any attractivness I would have with a woman

See I'm a guy who believes in wanting to take care of a woman, but doesn't know how. I 'm a guy who wants the relationship, but I'm afrraid that it will actually work and then if I disappoint her, then what will happen?

I guess I'm like one of your writers in the Nice guy section. I know that I have a problem, but I don't know how to start fixing it? I mean, is to become a prick who does not care? Is it dumping the porn? Is it stop being a pushy bastard and stop asking a girl for a date the first time you see her on MySpace?

I don't know what I want or where to begin, but I'm trying to find out and it seems you guys have a handle on things as far as relationships and dating (Well, a much better one than I, lol) , so I will be watching and not whining about my problems and I hope you don't make too much fun out of this because you may have seen this before from some other poor sap and besides, all I want to say is thank you for the site because I think I would still be out there trying to be something I'm not instead of trying to figure out something else for me, like being someone that shouldn't be identified as soemthing like a player or a nice guy. When I am finally ready for something -- I want them to see just Marvin and to take me for my strengths and weaknesses. Tough for this time and in my town, but one never knows, and besides I will be doing it with acutal love for myself -- something I haven't had for a while

Once again, thank you Marvin Holman
Danville, Illinois

[Seriously, Guys like Marvin need to see a therapist. You can't be a good partner to someone else, when you don't even like or love yourself. He needs to figure out how to be truly happy as his OWN person, before he can be the kind of partner a (healthy) woman wants. Until then, he is easy pickin's for the pretator women who are out to use and abuse - Just like the insecure women who get preyed on by abusive men.]

Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005
From: Rene Jaspers
Subject: COMMENTS: Nice Guys

I wish your site existed when I was young and dating.

I started reading your 'Nice Guys' section for laughs to see what kind of rubbish I would find. Instead of rubbish, I had a bloody epiphany. It hit me like a load of bricks, all of those years when I complained about women not liking 'Nice Guys', it made me almost sick to my stomach to face the facts of the matter. I was deeply embarressed that I was infact for several years the sad 'Nice Guy' trying to manipulate women and wondering why that tactic didn't work!! It was like seeing yourself for the first time, and I was not at all impressed.

Luckily I grew out of the whole 'Nice Guy' thing 7 years ago, but I never really thought about what it was that I was trying to do by being a nice guy. Nor did I honestly think of it from a woman's perspective. I am sad to think of all of the time I wasted being such an idiot.

Why was I such an idiot? What on earth would make me think that being a love-struck puppy at a womans beckon-call was the right way to approach women?! Since my shocking epiphany, I have had time to mull it over, and I think there are several things that led me to believe this was the best way to interact with woman.

1) Puritan up bringing, according to my parents life was a series of absolutes, things were either right or wrong, no gray. For example pre-martial sex was wrong, so there was no point talking about it. So I was given no real skills from my parents in dealing with the complexities of 'modern' life. I learned a lot from experience, trust me my son won't have to learn everything from his mistakes!

2) Controlling mother - I could say more, but I don't want to make excuses!!

3) Unrealistically high view of myself, that is I believed for whatever reason that I was something really special (not that I ever did much that was note worthy). For example it wasn't until my mid-twenties that I finally understood that I was not the smartest guy in the room. Over the years I have more such clever insights.

4) Severe fear of rejection. I am not sure where this came from, but I think its why I chose a path of passive aggressive niceness. By being a Nice Guy I never really had to put myself out there. Thus no rejection, well at least not patently.

5) Believed that woman were something they are not. That is I thought women wanted the kind of attention I wanted to give them. Only through the years did I discover that the women who liked my kind of attention were very troubled and unhealthy such a vitcims of domestic violence etc.

[We keep trying to TELL the "NiceGuys" THAT is the kind of women they attract by their behavior, but they see it as a flaw in ALL women, not in themselves. You at least appear to have LEARNED from your experiences, and have learned that not all women are like that.]

What turned me around?? Well after a particularly bad relationship ended, my world view changed, and what I wanted out of a partner changed (I even made a list if you can believe that, top of the list was a normal woman with NO emotional baggage etc). I began treating woman as I would treat other men, that is I was polite and friendly, but no more. Years later I find myself married to a wonderful strong woman, who came from a very healthy background.

Despite all of that, it was not until I came upon your website that I understood what kind of idiot I had been in my youth! I really wish someone had taken the time to explain it to me back then, like you have done on your site. I just want you to know that that I got to know myself a bit better from reading your site, it wasn't an easy thing to accept about myself. I am glad that through luck, or pain, or whatever it was that I stopped being such an idiot, and have had many great and healthy friendships with woman that would never have happened had I been a 'Nice Guy'.

Definitely Not a Nice Guy! :-)

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:48 -0500
Subject: Male Flame form : Sam

COMMENTS: Why do u put the blame on the nice person after all it is the heartless person's fault.They are the ones who have lied,cheated,manipulated etc,i dont think you would feel the same if it happened to you. People of no heart and no conscience.

[See the previous email - it is the spineless "nice guy" behaviors that are a beacon for users and abusers. When the guy figures out how to get some self-esteem, AND be honest with himself, only THEN will he not be open to being lied to and manipulated.]

You can be fooled only once and thats why now im a prick and dont do shit for biches and wont get married without a prenup because you cant trust bitches,i mean women.Whatever you do good or bad you will be held accountable and will be judged by God and whatever goes around comes around. Your website shows the true nature of women

[And this just goes to validate my point about the assholes who call themselves "NiceGuys". A REAL decent, honest caring person, wouldn't EVER refer to *all* women as BITCHES no matter how they got burned. They would not be picking manipulative, lying, cheating women in the first place. Genuinely decent guys with good hearts, don't have an underlying misogynistic attitude, and they don't go after fucked up women. At least not more than once, and then, if they DO make a wrong turn, they take responsibility for THEIR own contribution to the mess and move on - realizing that they made a mistake in judgement. They don't jump to the conclusion that "you can't trust bitches, i mean women". Manipulative people don't turn someone into an asshole. Being an asshole is a CHOICE. Which tells me this guy isn't NICE at all. Assholes like him get what they deserve. I call it Karma.]

From: "Richard Austin"
Subject: COMMENTS: Nice Guys Articles
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005

Firstly, may I say you hit the nail on the head.

However (there's always one) I thought a couple of points needed clearing up- especially for the sake of we partially evolved apes known as males.

Aside: If I've completely missed the point here, I look forward to the public pillorying

[*sigh* They always do. Too many of they guys who write in are closet masochists]

I just hope its as funny as the rest of the stuff on this site - but I digress.

There is a huge difference between a ‘nice’ guy (a decent human being who happens to be male) and a ‘Nice Guy’ (the manipulative and dismal excuse for a homosapien that is the target of this string).  If you are a ‘Nice Guy,’ don't confuse the complete rejection of you by women (for the reasons outlined in the article) with a rejection of the wish for Men to BE nice.  What a novel concept – that women may desire decent human beings as their partners! (they just don’t want smothering, manipulative emotional children).

[Surprisingly enough, we HAVE tried to explain that over, and over and OVER again in this section of the site, but there appears to be a segment of the male population who steadfastly REFUSES to "Get it".]

If you are a ‘Nice Guy’ don't think that just by ‘projecting confidence’ or some other such nonsense that you’re cured.  YOU”VE MISSED THE WHOLE DAMN POINT!  Trying to merely ‘project’ an image that you THINK will be more attractive to women is just another deception designed to cover your own inadequacies.  While confidence might have a higher ‘pick up’ rate than sickly sweet ‘niceness,’ she’ll figure you out sooner or later and the yawning chasm of your own emotional instability will swallow the relationship just as surely as if the sickly sweet ‘Nice Guy’ image had never allowed it to start in the first place.  Its not about image – its not even about ‘loving yourself’ – its simply a matter of arriving at the level of maturity where you don’t actually NEED another person to validate your existence.


This is perhaps the most important clarification for all the ‘Nice Guys’ out there.  Don’t think that just because you do get your act together and find peace within yourself that you’ll somehow instantly ‘get more action.’  If you’re ugly, fat, short, have acne, have a stutter, have an IQ < 70, live in a remote area etc. etc. then chances are you won’t somehow be rejuvenated into a concoction of Adonis and Casanova.  Again, if ‘more action’ is the goal, you’ve totally missed the point.

The GOAL (since we men always seem to need a goal) for all ‘Nice Guys’ should be peace with themselves.  If you achieve this (its called growing up), then it WON'T MATTER if you get hundreds of dates, or none – you'll finally be in that blissful state known as adulthood where you don't NEED someone else (mother, sister, lover) to validate your existence and constantly patch up your own shattered self esteem.  You’ll be independent, and for the first time – free.

So to HBI – thanks for the wakeup call (ice water, slap and all).  To all the ‘Nice Guy’s’ out there – do what I did, look in the mirror and grow up.  It feels great.

[No pillorying required here. He's *got* it. One can only hope others get it too.]

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005
From: marc demilt
Subject: nice does not equal weak

During my progression to black belt, one of the lessons that I was taught was that weakness does not necessarily equal niceness. A person could be a strong person (character) and also be a nice person. Conversely, a person could be weak person and also *not* be a nice person.

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