The latest comments from and about Nice Guys...
From: Marvin Holman
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005
Subject: Comments on being a total wuss and a nice guy
I know with a title like that you can see that my self-esteem is at a
low, but it is true. I have been a wuss when it comes to relationships
and women for all of my life
Let me explain: My name is Marvin and for my 28-years on this earth, I
have been totall y afraid of women, maybe not of them, but their
reactions to me
See I can't fully come up to a woman and just talk to her. I feel that
my shyness is from a fear of rejection. It's understandable, but eery
time I try to start something, the girl gets a bf or I wasn't aggressive
or I get too pushy or I'm just not the right type.
That stuff can get you over the edge in a way, because you do feel that
no one wants you. So I rebelled by coming up with a identity that I can
hide behind: A nice guy
I think I am a nice guy -- I never committed a
crime, I work two jobs and I think I have a good personality. But since
the combination of rejection and unwillingness to try for months at a
time always comes into play, it seems that I am just an
That's why I tried to rally back in personals and in
blogs that I was a nice guy and you women don't see that I am good and
I'm willing to be there for you no matter what, but no one was feeling
that at all
Then I took a look at your site and the section on nice
guys and it was so mind-blowing to me because almost everything you and
the other writers said were on the money about me. In reality, I make
most connections with women with my computer and I never really tried to
go out and since I'm a wuss, I never had the chance to just go up to any
random stranger and say Hello, I'm Marvin how are you??
Also I saw a section called redflag and I believe before all of the
situations, you said if a significant other has at least two of these
traits, leave now. Well I went through tthat list and I found out that I
had more than two of these traits
So now I'm freakingout because all
of my habits have come back and it has shown an unattractive side that
can easily deactivate any attractivness I would have with a woman
I'm a guy who believes in wanting to take care of a woman, but doesn't
know how. I 'm a guy who wants the relationship, but I'm afrraid that it
will actually work and then if I disappoint her, then what will happen?
I guess I'm like one of your writers in the Nice guy section. I know
that I have a problem, but I don't know how to start fixing it? I mean,
is to become a prick who does not care? Is it dumping the porn? Is it
stop being a pushy bastard and stop asking a girl for a date the first
time you see her on MySpace?
I don't know what I want or where to begin, but I'm trying to find out
and it seems you guys have a handle on things as far as relationships
and dating (Well, a much better one than I, lol) , so I will be watching
and not whining about my problems and I hope you don't make too much fun
out of this because you may have seen this before from some other poor
sap and besides, all I want to say is thank you for the site because I
think I would still be out there trying to be something I'm not instead
of trying to figure out something else for me, like being someone that
shouldn't be identified as soemthing like a player or a nice guy. When I
am finally ready for something -- I want them to see just Marvin and to
take me for my strengths and weaknesses. Tough for this time and in my
town, but one never knows, and besides I will be doing it with acutal
love for myself -- something I haven't had for a while
Once again, thank you
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005
From: Rene Jaspers
Subject: COMMENTS: Nice Guys
I wish your site existed when I was young and dating.
I started reading your 'Nice Guys' section for laughs to see what kind of rubbish I would find. Instead of rubbish, I had a bloody epiphany. It hit me like a load of bricks, all of those years when I complained about women not liking 'Nice Guys', it made me almost sick to my stomach to face the facts of the matter. I was deeply embarressed that I was infact for several years the sad 'Nice Guy' trying to manipulate women and wondering why that tactic didn't work!! It was like seeing yourself for the first time, and I was not at all impressed.
Luckily I grew out of the whole 'Nice Guy' thing 7 years ago, but I never really thought about what it was that I was trying to do by being a nice guy. Nor did I honestly think of it from a woman's perspective. I am sad to think of all of the time I wasted being such an idiot.
Why was I such an idiot? What on earth would make me think that being a
love-struck puppy at a womans beckon-call was the right way to approach
women?! Since my shocking epiphany, I have had time to mull it over, and
I think there are several things that led me to believe this was the
best way to interact with woman.
1) Puritan up
bringing, according to my parents life was a series of absolutes, things
were either right or wrong, no gray. For example pre-martial sex was
wrong, so there was no point talking about it. So I was given no real
skills from my parents in dealing with the complexities of 'modern'
life. I learned a lot from experience, trust me my son won't have to
learn everything from his mistakes!
mother - I could say more, but I don't want to make excuses!!
3) Unrealistically high view of myself, that is I believed
for whatever reason that I was something really special (not that I ever
did much that was note worthy). For example it wasn't until my
mid-twenties that I finally understood that I was not the smartest guy
in the room. Over the years I have more such clever insights.
4) Severe fear of rejection. I am not sure where this came
from, but I think its why I chose a path of passive aggressive niceness.
By being a Nice Guy I never really had to put myself out there. Thus no
rejection, well at least not patently.
that woman were something they are not. That is I thought women wanted
the kind of attention I wanted to give them. Only through the years did
I discover that the women who liked my kind of attention were very
troubled and unhealthy such a vitcims of domestic violence
What turned me around?? Well after a
particularly bad relationship ended, my world view changed, and what I
wanted out of a partner changed (I even made a list if you can believe
that, top of the list was a normal woman with NO emotional baggage etc).
I began treating woman as I would treat other men, that is I was polite
and friendly, but no more. Years later I find myself married to a
wonderful strong woman, who came from a very healthy
Despite all of that, it was not until I
came upon your website that I understood what kind of idiot I had been
in my youth! I really wish someone had taken the time to explain it to
me back then, like you have done on your site. I just want you to know
that that I got to know myself a bit better from reading your site, it
wasn't an easy thing to accept about myself. I am glad that through
luck, or pain, or whatever it was that I stopped being such an idiot,
and have had many great and healthy friendships with woman that would
never have happened had I been a 'Nice Guy'.
Definitely Not a Nice Guy! :-)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:48 -0500
Subject: Male Flame form : Sam
COMMENTS: Why do u put the blame on the nice person after all it is the
heartless person's fault.They are the ones who have lied,cheated,manipulated
etc,i dont think you would feel the same if it happened to you. People of no
heart and no conscience.
You can be fooled only once and thats why now im a
prick and dont do shit for biches and wont get married without a prenup because
you cant trust bitches,i mean women.Whatever you do good or bad you will be held
accountable and will be judged by God and whatever goes around comes around.
Your website shows the true nature of women
From: "Richard Austin"
Subject: COMMENTS: Nice Guys Articles
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005
Firstly, may I say you hit the nail on the head.
However (there's always one) I thought a couple of
points needed clearing up- especially for the sake of we partially
evolved apes known as males.
Aside: If I've completely missed the point here, I
look forward to the public pillorying
I just hope its as funny as the
rest of the stuff on this site - but I digress.
There is a huge difference between a ‘nice’
guy (a decent human being who happens to be male) and a ‘Nice Guy’
(the manipulative and dismal excuse for a homosapien that is the target of this
string). If you are a ‘Nice Guy,’ don't confuse the complete
rejection of you by women (for the reasons outlined in the article) with a
rejection of the wish for Men to BE nice. What a novel concept –
that women may desire decent human beings as their partners! (they just don’t
want smothering, manipulative emotional children).
If you are a ‘Nice Guy’ don't think
that just by ‘projecting confidence’ or some other such nonsense
that you’re cured. YOU”VE MISSED THE WHOLE DAMN POINT! Trying
to merely ‘project’ an image that you THINK will be more attractive
to women is just another deception designed to cover your own inadequacies. While
confidence might have a higher ‘pick up’ rate than sickly sweet ‘niceness,’
she’ll figure you out sooner or later and the yawning chasm of your own
emotional instability will swallow the relationship just as surely as if the
sickly sweet ‘Nice Guy’ image had never allowed it to start in the
first place. Its not about image – its not even about ‘loving
yourself’ – its simply a matter of arriving at the level of
maturity where you don’t actually NEED another person to validate your existence.
This is perhaps the most important clarification for
all the ‘Nice Guys’ out there. Don’t think that just
because you do get your act together and find peace within yourself that you’ll
somehow instantly ‘get more action.’ If you’re ugly,
fat, short, have acne, have a stutter, have an IQ < 70, live in a remote
area etc. etc. then chances are you won’t somehow be rejuvenated into a
concoction of Adonis and Casanova. Again, if ‘more action’ is
the goal, you’ve totally missed the point.
The GOAL (since we men always seem to need a goal) for all ‘Nice
Guys’ should be peace with themselves. If you achieve this
(its called growing up), then it WON'T MATTER if you get hundreds of
dates, or none – you'll finally be in that blissful state known as
adulthood where you don't NEED someone else (mother, sister, lover) to
validate your existence and constantly patch up your own shattered self esteem.
You’ll be independent, and for the first time – free.
So to HBI – thanks for the wakeup call (ice water,
slap and all). To all the ‘Nice Guy’s’ out there –
do what I did, look in the mirror and grow up. It feels great.
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005
From: marc demilt
Subject: nice does not equal weak
During my progression to black belt, one of the
lessons that I was taught was that weakness does not necessarily equal
niceness. A person could be a strong person (character) and also be a
nice person. Conversely, a person could be weak person and also *not* be a nice person.