The "Nice Guys" archive

Comments - round 36
Comments - round 35
Comments - round 34
Comments - round 33
Comments - round 32
Comments - round 31
Comments - round 30
Comments - round 29
Comments - round 28
Comments - round 27
Comments - round 26
Comments - round 25
Comments - round 24
Comments - round 23
Comments - round 22
Comments - round 21
Comments - round 20
Comments - round 19
Comments - round 18
Comments - round 17
Comments - round 16
Comments - round 15
Comments - round 14
Comments - round 13
Comments - round 12
Comments - round 11
Comments - round 10
Comments - round 9
Comments - round 8
Comments - round 7
Comments - round 6
Comments - round 5
Comments - round 4
Comments - round 3
Comments - round 2
Comments - round 1.5
Comments - round 1
Nice Guys = BLEAH!
Nice Guys we can do without

The latest comments from and about Nice Guys...

From: "William Moad"
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006

Dear Heartless Bitches,

I understand that by writing this email to you I am likely setting myself up, however I wanted to let you know that while most of your articles were merely entertaining to me, one actually had an affect on me. Your piece titled "The Spineless Man (A Parable for Nice Guys)" began to cut me deep from the first paragraph, because it was my life from the day I turned 15 until just recently. I am 21 years old now, and if you don't care for a 500 word essay on the intervening 6 years between the first and last stage described in your article, please note that the last paragraph or two might have something you do want to read.

[Why, why, WHY do these guys feel compelled to tell a total stranger their life stories? Why do they think I, or anyone else, would CARE?]

For many years I had a good deal of platonic female friends....

[most of "500 word essay" deleted for brevity...]

... I don't think that I am ready for a relationship yet but I'm seeing things in a different light. I no longer think that I was shot down every time because I was a "nice guy" nor do I think girls naturally prefer assholes, I understand now the simple logic that if the same thing happened to me over and over it is because of something I was doing. I will however have to say that I did have much better luck as an asshole than as a spineless wimp, but mostly because an asshole at least doesnt cling to people, but rather pushes them away, so they are willing to stand near enough to him for communication, if only out of arm's reach

While I understand that you have no desire to read the long convoluted life stories of your various readers,

[So why did you include yours?]

I found that parable matched my past so closely I was compelled to explain my story.

[I still don't understand WHY he thinks we'd care...?]

I cannot say that I understand -all- of the ideals or messages you are trying to present to your audience, whether directly or indirectly, but I can see clearly that you are waging war on stupidity in general and that can only be complimented. The article helped me to understand my own past a little better, linking it all into one concise statement, and I must admit it was creepy and a little frightening in it's accuracy. I think it is the first time anything I read online ever directly applied to me, or made me actually feel a strong emotion. I have no clue what that emotion was, or even if I liked it much, But I am glad I had it.

Anyway I figure that in writing this to you I might get roasted, I might get ignored, or I might be a shining ray of hope to spineless wimp turned asshole turned normal frickin human being guys like myself. I think however my primary reason for writing this is because that article just gave me a hell of alot to say, and so I figured I would say it, for better or worse, to those responsible for the article.

[I think you'd get more mileage (and greater benefit) if you say it to your therapist - and I'm not being flippant here.]

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006
From: "Ke Huang"
Subject: Very Interesting
I have to say... I absolutely love some of the articles on the website. I agree with almost everything you women say. Thinking back to my high school and early college days, I used to get too infatuated with a girl and put her on a pedestal. Wow, I wish I had read this stuff several years ago. I remember a few years ago I had hooked up with this really pretty and smart girl, but I made myself too available to her and 'put the pussy on a pedestal'. Eventually she ditched me =). Too bad I had to find all of this out the hard way on my own

[The fact that you saw her as "the pussy" is creepy enough on its own. Gah. Do these guys even RECOGNIZE how they objectify women - even the ones they supposedly respect and revere?]

Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 19:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: James
Subject: Comments on "nice guys"..

Thought I'd offer some thoughts after reading some of the material about "Nice guys not getting the girl" etc. My commentary to guys who get bent out of shape over rejection like this. You see a woman, you think she's hot, but she blows you off. (As in doesn't reciprocate your interest) You're pissed because she's being a "stuck up bitch". Yes, rejection sucks. I've been rejected plenty, at times clumsily and tactlessly. But, before working yourself into a snit - realize, especially if she's a total stranger or if you don't know her very well, you don't really know anything about her intelligence, her character, her morals. Maybe she cuts loose with smelly farts all night. Maybe she has some fetish you would find disgusting or is an obnoxious, uncouth drunk. If one truly believes that a particular segment of "attractive" women "only go for assholes", then what exactly have you been deprived of? A liason with a female with screwed-up priorities who happens to have a pleasingly shaped form? Do you jump all over the chance to have a relationship a female no matter how dumpy and physically repulsive you find her, looking strictly at how "nice" she is? Or think of another angle Mr. "Nice Guy". How nice are you? Let's say you end up dating this woman and have an ongoing relationship for 6 months, a year, 2 years. Then one day she has a bad accident or comes down with a disease that leaves her crippled and disfigured. You started out with this smokin' hottie, now her face is a wreck, and she needs to have her ass wiped for her. Maybe she's missing a limb, maybe she'll be in a wheelchair for the rest of her life. This is her new reality, forever.

You still gonna be there for her Mr. Nice Guy? Or one could take heed from the tale of someone I know. My own father in fact. You look in the dictionary under "Nice Guy", you'll see his picture. Met this big city girl. Tall, gorgeous, had done some modeling, etc. had that whole sophisticated attitude thing going. Yeah, he was all over that. Pestered her for weeks to get her to go out with him, all but stalking her. She kept putting him off. Fast forward about 15 years. Well, he got the girl alright. Of course, she's squeezed out a couple of kids and slapped on about 70 lbs, and his little hottie has proven to be a bipolar harpie from hell. She's vain, lazy, and despite his having provided well is constantly, vocally miserable with damn little reason to be. She's an irrational, abusive bitch to her kids and blames them and her husband for all the things she didn't do, such as get a college degree, though she's lived within 20 minutes of college campuses the entire time they've been married. She's a bitch to family and friends of his who have been nothing but nice to her, for no other reason than because for whatever reason known only to her, they happen to rub her the wrong way and she feels like it. She spends a fortune of the money he's earned on plastic surgery in a pathetic attempt to hang on to the one thing that had been her stock in trade, not having any particular skills or specialized talent or knowledge. Yeah, he beat his brains out to win her over all those years ago. He won the prize all right. There are definitely worse things than "not getting the girl".

[And MY take on that is, HE DESERVES HER. I have ZERO sympathy for people who are attracted to superficial qualities and then have the gall to complain when they find out the pool is too shallow.]

Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006
Subject: Male Flame form : Sam

COMMENTS: I love you cold, heart-of stone females. Love it. Why? Because it's real! Love and romance addicts? Yuck. Somebody still has to clean the toilets. I am convinced that all females are like you, except that some of them lie to themselves and others. You don't.

I also want to say that your views on nice guys and emotional abusers has personally helped me a TON. I see the distinction better. Nice guy is actually creepy conniving guy. And women don't just want jerks, they want someone real, and not a wimp. Men that can't deal are the "lesser males" that stay behind raising the other guy's kids. Priceless.

Also, my ex was an emotional abuser of the highest order. I own my share of the blame, but just seeing it broken down, is a surprisingly therapeutic thing. It really actually helped me. And please do bear in mind, women do that too, not just guys.

[Neither gender has a monopoly on manipulation, lies and self-absorbtion. What "NiceGuys" don't realize is that be cause they ARE so emotionally screwed up, they WILL eventually attract emotionally screwed up mates - the kind that will take advantage of them and fuck them over.]

I no longer bitch about why don't girls want a nice guy like me, etc. I just roll however I choose, carry myself with class, have a little game, and life is so sweet these days. Bless you heartless bitches. Honestly, that is a misnomer. You know you aren't totally heartless. You just don't care for BS, and can spot it a mile away. I love that. Girls like you can do my laundry anytime LOL

[Heh, yeah, right. As if we do ANYONE else's laundry but our own. But then you knew that already, didn't you?]

God Bless

Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006
From: StarMage187
Subject: A Letter

Dear HBI
I recently stumbled across your website.

[This seems to be a frequent type of accident. I am continually amazed there aren't more injuries.]

While do genuinely agree with most of what you say, and I find it refreshing that there are still people of both sexes that tell it like it is, I'd like to take a moment to comment on some of things that I have read in your rants section. Feel free that to post this, ignore this, or replay to me and tell me to fuck off. Your website, your time, your choice.

[Why is there always a big fat "BUT" with these guys? They are SO invested in their own rationalizations that they feel compelled to tell us why we, and millions of women out there, are *wrong* about them in particular.]

The main thing is a rant on why Heartless Bitches do not date "nice guys". All of the other rants were understandably blamed on men who used it as an excuse for refusing to stand up for themselves, or as a means of hiding the fact that they are misanthropic assholes. This one, however, written by a woman named Amy Brown, was not. It had a stilted view of all three catagories of people presented in her rant, formed I can only assume by her own experience.

[She was being deliberately hyperbolic to stress a point. I think you missed it.]

Ms. Bown classifies a jerk as simply a man who is unfaithful, nice girl a woman hunting for husband/bread winner/bill-payer/sperm bank, and nice guy as a man on a fox hunt for that same male-stalking wife. I disagree with all three of these things. I don't consider myself a nice a guy by either definition, but women continually tell me I am (the "nice girls" as well, so I'm optimistcally assuming that it's a reflection on my ettiquet rather then the state of my spine). If I am a really nice guy, if I'm just too "blind" (as so many of the rants claim men are) to notice I'm one of the others, or even if any of the other men I know are nice guys, then their are many exception to this generalization. Not ever nice guy is looking for Ms. Cleaver. I could never be happy with that type of woman, and neither could most of the men that I know.

[So you don't fit HER particular definition. Big whup. Why bother fussing over it?]

I also have a dim view of marriage, or rather the way most marriage are or become, and while I can't say that I have never cheated on a woman I've date, it has only been because I have never felt the desire to.

[You can't say that you have "never" cheated, but then you say you have never felt the desire to? Or is this to say that you won't say you never WILL cheat? God these guys are incomprehensible so much of the time...]

Further more, I myself have done things on the spur of the moment, due in large part to however I was feeling or whatever I was under the influence of, and still people consider me a nice guy. Being a nice guy does not necessarily mean that you lead a shelter life, nor does it mean that you are intent on continuing it.

[I think you are missing the POINT here. Again. (These types always do). You can be a kind, considerate person. It doesn't mean you fit the "NiceGuy" personna identified (and skewered) here. If it doesn't pertain to you, why are you bothering to sweat it?]

I think that this particular rant is a disservice to to all of the groups identified, and perhaps even to the heartless bitch community because it portrays them as being even more judgemental then the men they claim to hate.

[It describes ONE woman's point of view - you take ONE perspective and some how warp it into some sweeping assertion that it is intended to represent all women's opinions.]

The other thing was a minor point from a rant which I don't seem to be able to locate, but it expressed the opinion that nice guys don't see what the real problems are with their relationships. I, for one, and completely aware of my issues. The truth is that the majority of the problems in my relationships stem from the fact that I tend to be a jealous prick, and that I have knight in shining armor complex that forces me set of my eyes on women who tend to be emotionally damaged, or at least having far more problems to worry about then I do. Most of the nice guys (as I apply the term) that I know also see their own problems quite clearly. To say that we don't is to imply that every man in the world who isn't an asshole 100% of the time has a severe persecution complex.

[Gee, you may have some aspects of self-awareness, but it doesn't sound like you are very "nice" at all. I can't imagine why you think you are a "NiceGuy"]

I'm done for now. If you've made it this far, you've given me my own chance to bitch, and for that I think you. Once again, I love the website, and I hope you keep it for a long time to come.

J. D. Bowers

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