The "Nice Guys" archive

Comments - round 36
Comments - round 35
Comments - round 34
Comments - round 33
Comments - round 32
Comments - round 31
Comments - round 30
Comments - round 29
Comments - round 28
Comments - round 27
Comments - round 26
Comments - round 25
Comments - round 24
Comments - round 23
Comments - round 22
Comments - round 21
Comments - round 20
Comments - round 19
Comments - round 18
Comments - round 17
Comments - round 16
Comments - round 15
Comments - round 14
Comments - round 13
Comments - round 12
Comments - round 11
Comments - round 10
Comments - round 9
Comments - round 8
Comments - round 7
Comments - round 6
Comments - round 5
Comments - round 4
Comments - round 3
Comments - round 2
Comments - round 1.5
Comments - round 1
Nice Guys = BLEAH!
Nice Guys we can do without

And Still more comments from and about Nice Guys...

Subject: Male Flame form : Frederick

COMMENTS: Just a comment on the Nice Guys We Can Do Without article. In paragraph two the author implied that women dont want to be best friends with their male partner as this is too suffocating or clingy. I dont understand, this seems to go against everything else that you were saying about women being people too. That is, being just like men and therefore capable of a what I might call a "full" and loving relationship involving, yes, being friends first and lovers, second. Besides most women I know have the opposite problem of their guy never wanting to spend any time with them except for the obligatory bumping of uglies in the sack every now and again. Wouldn't a man that wants to be good friends somewhat refreshing? Isnt that what it's all about? While sex is more of a, admitttedly pleasant, hormonal distraction?

[While the distinction wasn't spelled out in detail, the spirit of that comment was directed at the guy who doesn't have any close male friends - he focuses all his SUFFOCATING attention on the object of his affections. And she becomes just that: an OBJECT.]

If I have failed to criticise or mention anything else you can take it as read that I like it, generally agree it, insert sycophantic comments here etc. Thanks.

From: Ryan
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003
Subject: Nice guy philosophy
I do somewhat agree with your philosophy on why guys consider themselves "nice" and then blame women for not liking nice guys.

[Why is it I can smell a "But" coming?]

This is true for a portion, but definetly not most.

[Ahhh... an Authority]

It's actually the same thing happening when women say "men only objectify women's bodies and don't look at personality", when the women are just merely lacking the goodlooking traits.

[So only ugly women complain that men are only looking at physical traits?]

Now on to the much larger problem...This problem has to do with the way women think, and probably will never change...It's how women assume things about guys. Most women will always try to instantly sum up guys they might be interested in. It's no lie, a few good, honest, happy women tell me this...

[A Few women... such a large sample set. No wonder he's an Authority. What on earth has any idiot's "instant assumptions" got to do with the lack of a spine in Nice Guys? Are you implying that women can't see the guy doing double-backbends?]

The problem here is most of women's instincts are actually wrong, but they still follow them...

[Ohhh. The poor dears. And it takes a big, strong man to set their pretty little heads right?]

The reason for this is because women in general are very intuitive and lack the ability to think clearly, so they end up following their "intuition". Women always rely on their emotional intuition...Most women "just can't think", thus their ability to determine if a mate is good for her is lacking compared to the men's...

[That's a great way to try and discount a woman sizing you up and seeing "LOSER" emblazoned on your forehead. According to Stephen Pinker most women do have superior depth perception. Which means they can see through this kind of lame-assed bullshit.]

For instance, when a man is being nice to a woman, she might think he's spineless, unadventurous, but actually he might her perfect man.

[Snort. You wish. If only she could see the REAL you.... Wake up bud. She did and she didn't like what she saw.]

That man might have always been told to be nice to women throughout his life, so he's nice to her, and then he loses her only because of her faulty intuition(thinking hes spineless,etc).

[Your ego must be deep in the toilet if you have to dredge up these kinds of fallacies and ludicrous excuses and trot them out as if they were fact.]

The real problem is many women think certain men are spineless, unmysterious, when actually they aren't.

[Suuuuurre their not. You just keep clicking your heels and saying "There's no place like home. There's no place like home."]

Theres actually not as many spineless, unadventurous men out there as you think.

[Wanna bet?]

That guy you think is spineless,unmysterious might actually be one of the top dirt bikers in the world, the next Bob dylan, the next einstein.

[Doesn't mean he has a spine or self-esteem. Doesn't mean he isn't a self-absorbed loser.]

His friends might know him as the best football player theyve seen, but unfortunately, because of women's faulty intuiton, shes thinks hes just another common guy....

[Oh poor you... if only they would stick around long enough to find the REAL you... bet you've heard the sound of running footsteps (away from you) many times...]

You see, the problem is in women's inability to think clearly and get to know someone before she makes a decision on whether shes compatible with him. All this is directed mainly at the younger women(19-28) of course.

[Of course. Women's brains don't actually fully mature until they are over 30. That's why over half the university enrollment is women now and why more girls than boys are graduating from highschool. But I digress... If the younger women are so inept at seeing what a great guy you are, why not go for the older women? Or do they think you are a loser too? ]

From: "Guinastasia"
Subject: Nice Guy article NAILS it!
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003

I just wanted to send a comment to the "Nice Guy" rants. In my opinion, your article totally said everything I've ever thought about the "Nice Guy." I knew one-he was a friend from work until he turned stalker on me. (Thankfully, it was stopped before it started and he moved away!). He was a "nice guy" who was a passive-aggressive, manipulative doormat with a hair-trigger temper to boot.

If someone is truly "nice", he won't need to constantly advertise that fact-it will be obvious. I don't want someone to put me on a pedestal as a princess-I want someone who will see me as I am-warts and all-and love me anyways. Being nice doesn't mean not having a spine-I find people who stand up for what's right and what they believe in and won't take shit from the assholes as "nice".

So here's my advice, gals-if a guy starts complaining about how women don't want him because he's too "nice"-run for the hills!


From: "Alan M Rogers"
Subject: Nice guys finish last...
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003

I was reading the section on ‘Nice Guys’ on your website, and, to my surprise, I found myself nodding my head at a lot of what was being said. I’ve always considered myself a ‘nice guy’. I like to think of myself a quiet person, and I do a lot of listening. I open doors for women, I will pay for them on a date – not because ‘I’m the guy’, but because I feel those kinds of behaviors are ways I can show a woman I am attracted to her without slapping her ass or staring at her tits all night.

If a woman tells me those kinds of behaviors are offensive or they bother her, I stop - at least, I’d like to think I would. I haven’t been told that yet.

I am also a geek among geeks; hence, I spend a great deal of time around a lot of ‘nice guys’, and I have listened to (and participated in) more than my share of ‘nice guys finish last’ conversations. But in all of those conversations, I never once understood (and many times argued the point) how any person whining about how they couldn’t attract someone, for whatever reason, served any purpose other than to chase any and all potential relationships away. After all, it’s no fun to sit there and listen to someone bitch and moan about how horrible their life is and how no woman would or could ever pay attention to them – when, of course, they are most often bitching to a woman.

At least, in my experience.

Oddly enough, I’m a nice guy who has had quite a few rather successful long-term relationships that I am happy to say began on the basis that the girl wanted to date a ‘nice guy’ instead of a ‘bad boy’. None of these women were submissive, scared little girls looking for protection or damsels in distress needing a knight in shining armor to ride to their rescue. Each of them was an intelligent, thoughtful, insightful and even-tempered person who I was happy to be with.

I also don’t understand how a guy can be a ‘nice guy’ if all he does is want to be with a girl - what’s the point in that? Why spend all your time trying to validate being ‘nice’ by having some chick on your arm when, in reality, you can be doing a whole shitload of other things with your life. I’m a nice guy, and I have had several stretches in my life where I couldn’t have gotten a date if my life depended on it. Yet, I was able to function in life, enjoy my life, and even by happy, despite the noted lack of female companionship. The real ‘nice guys’ don’t want to be with a girl that doesn’t want to be with them, and won’t torture and torment her by trying to convince her that he’s wonderful because he’s ‘nice’.

A real nice guy doesn’t have to convince a woman of anything - and has nothing to fear if a woman doesn’t want to be with him.

~ alan m rogers

[Of course, Genuinely "Nice" guys don't feel the need to advertise it, nor do they complain about how little pussy it gets them...]

From: "hkjh ljlkj"
Subject: Reformed Loser
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003

*Stands up, looks at all the people with name-tags*

Hi, my name is Thomas. I'm 21 from Dublin, and I... I was a Nice Guy. It's true, I was one of those misguided idiots who followed my intended around like a puppy, yearning simple recognition, living for the occasional word of praise. I'd spend my time away from her wallowing in self-pity at the same time loathing those fortunate enough to be graced by her presence. Whiling away the hours alone thinking of what could be, I would email myself poetry and then delete it later out of embarrassment.


Thank Christ I eventually dug myself out of that hole, realized how ridiculous I had become and began my long journey on the road to becoming a reasonably well-balanced individual. If only I had been smacked around the head and shown your site earlier, I might have been able to lead a normal life a bit sooner. Some people really need to be saved from themselves and if I recognize the symptoms of Nice Guy syndrome in anyone , they'll get a swift kick up the ass and the address to the site.

I'll make sure to point my current girlfriend (one of the FEW women I know with more than a shred of self-confidence) in the direction of, she'll get as much of a kick out of it as I did.

Keep up the good bitching.

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