Comments on Nice Guys articles
Updated: July 24, 2002
Well, that link from Fark.com (July 21) certainly brought in a flood of opinions and comments. If nothing else they serve as entertainment and/or fodder. We just had to share.
From: "David Wright" "firstname.lastname@example.org"
Subject: nice or not?
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:57:26 -0400
I just stumbled over your site. I am mid 40's male (english).
In a new relationship.
Being back at this stage of a relationship is wild after 20 years of 'contentment??'I have suffered the 'deal with it' rant in real life - served up in a very nice wayIt did provoke serious thoughtMy reflection has been constant because this woman is so special
Personality is not static, but dynamic, if we have a mind to make it so - we can and do change and grow
Surfing through your site was a revelation on different levels....thank youSome observations I recognised and depressed me, others I took heart from.In my male psyche I feel a constant, dynamic recognition of all of this stuff but I previously never had labels attached. I never have seen it writ so clear.
I feel a constant effort to pull away from that weak, dependent character, but retain the kindness in me.Work on my strengths
So I guess it is not black and white - 'nice' or not, but we are all some where upon the continuum between 'too nice' and ignorant dickhead.
thats it really
thanks for listening/reading
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 14:24:02 -0400
From: Jason "email@example.com"
I think you've got a great site here, although maybe there's a bit too
much analyzing going on...oh well, you can do it so I don't have to,
ha! Reading your section on nice guys made me realize a lot of
things (myself falling into that damnable category). Although I
wasn't trapped, I was far in, and seeing a lot of my flaws typed out
like an encyclopedia entry was the slap in the face I needed.
Thanks for giving a truly objective view on the whole nice guy syndrome,
among other topics on the site...you're not just running a humorous
website, you're helping people out.
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 04:47:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven johnson "firstname.lastname@example.org"
Subject: re: your kick ass site
i just wanted to say that you have a hilarious site. i was cruising the
web looking for a site for a psych project (i'm a psych major at
portland state university). after sifting through 15 or 20 "women
empowerment" websites, i came across your site and just had to laugh.
well, not at first, until i read the way that you took apart those "i'm
a nice guy" response letters. i think you are right on. alot of my
friends fall into one or more of the "nice guy" catagories, and i am
tired of telling them things like "stop whining, and take some damn
responsibility for your life", or "damn it, not all women are the same
as your ex. get over her and move on!". anyway, just wanted to let you
know what a great site you have, and that i am planning on using your
website for my project. thanks for putting up some great stuff on the
web, and making my night. sincerely,
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:27:55 -0600
From: max harvey "email@example.com"
Subject: About "nice guy" geoff
my name is raylene, and i just found your site and i had to say
something about geoff who doesn't seem to be able to keep anything
straight. women aren't all porn stars by the way and there has to be the
same amount of male porn stars as female and he can't deny that. he says
women need prtection, but i have seen women kick a guys ass while
protecting themselves, so what do they need prtection from?
the fact that guys can't face up to the point that they are not as
"nice" as they think is true. guys so often complain about how they
can't get anyone because they are to nice. but what girl in her right
mind would not go out with a guy because he is to nice. and if she says
that is her reason, i think she has something wrong with her.
some guys act like this is still the time of the cavemen. well sorry to
say but those days are long over. women do as they please, and guess
what, suprise! in quite a few cases they do better than men. i have
nothing against any guys, and i have never turned a guy down cause he
was to nice. so for geoff to say that girls are all for assholes is
completely retarded. it's like saying every guy is going for the blonde
with long legs and so on. it's a stereotype and you would think that in
this day people would have a better mind to realize that not everyone is
i think geoff needs to get his facts straight, and that if he is gonna
argue about what women want then he should at least stand on a certain
"ground" about it. he is all over the place with what he is saying and
you can tell the guy is just trying to complain to get a response!
Thanks for reading.
And in the "I just didn't quite get it department"....
Jake demonstrates the classic, "I'd rather be an asshole than a doormat" mentality of so many nice guys. He has just become another kind of manipulative creep.
Nice Guys, take note. If Jake really IS getting laid, it's with fucked-up women. Emotionally healthy women wouldn't knowingly be in the same county with him.
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 06:19 -0400
Subject: Male Flame form : Johnny Fingers
Please post for all the sniveling "Nice" guys out there.
First of all I have been a player and I have been nice to women I wanted
for a more serious adventure in emotional stupididty. Take my word for
it boys, be a player and enjoy yourself. If you find someone you want
then treat her how you would want to be treated, but do not be "nice"
out of the gate. Be clear. ..and stop freaking complaining.
I sympahtize wiht your dilemna, but if woman want sex and excitement
then give them that. So heres the difffernce between you and me. First
of all I am a funny bastard and I do not always agree with the women I
am talking to. If they don't like me for who I am, so be it. Next.
Second, undestrand the challnge and mothering instinct in a woman. How
many times have you seen a woman with a total loser. Why him and not
you? Easy, no challenge, nothign she can change and no sympahty. Her
investment is not required. No challnge, no excitement, no pussy.
Third, be direct, if you want to have sex then ask her to have sex, that
night stupid, don't wait. Ever heard the phrase familiarity breeds
contmpt, it does, when she sobs about her boyfirend, husband bla, bla
bla, that is a sure sign she is waiting for a guy to sweep her into the
sack. So do it fumble nuts. What are you waiting for Christmas?
There are variations on a theme but "wanna fuck" or the less crude want
to check out my posters seems to work. Or no shit simply grab her and
put her in the sack. And make your move quickly. I have had sex with
over 200 women and more or less it didn't take more than an hour or two.
Sixth, if your not good looking don't bother. Stop bitchin about being a
nice guy and your 20 lbs overwieght. If you looked good Chicks would be
diggin on you... and lastly if you are in the mind set you will finish
last you probably will. So instead of complaining, grab your nuts, be
clear and just go for the score. If you find one thats worth more than
make her work for you, and stop being so avaialable. Get a life. I'm
From: "chris mac" "firstname.lastname@example.org"
Subject: nice guys are losers
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:56:08 -0400
i've got to admit, the story about nice guys being losers did make a
real good point. nice guys are insecure pricks. i recently
stopped talking to one of my friends because he was taking the nice guy
act to a scary level. he started dating single mothers and
unwed pregnant girls because they made him feel needed. he took in
this homeless girl for a few months, and it was fucking crazy.
this girl met him on the street and he let her live at his place so that
he could be the "nice guy". then, after a while he started
complaining and putting on the martyr act because she was such a
burden. last time i heard, he is currently engaged to his
girlfriend of 30 days. she's got a fucked up family
situation. surprisingly i was not surprised. anyway,
enough about my rant, i just thought i'd say good job. that story
made me laugh because i'd been living with the epitome of insecure nice
guys until just recently, and it was so true.
From: "John Burke" "email@example.com"
Subject: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:01:36 -0400
I just finished reading 'Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS'. It was
dead on! Having someone just say it makes it easier to realize what it
is you need to change about yourself.
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:09:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Aristotle Jones "firstname.lastname@example.org"
Subject: Heartless Bitches....Not so heartless?
I recently came across your rant about Nice Guys. It's interesting that
most guys would be completely surprised by this information. I like to
think that I have some idea of what a girl is looking for in a guy
(although judging from my love life recently...maybe not...:-) ) And I'd
just like to applaud you for putting it out there, plain and simple, if
every moron with a dick could read it, I think there would be a little
less confusion when it comes to relationships.
It makes sense to me anyway. So hopefully your little rant about "Nice
Guys" can help at least some guys realize that they're being complete
morons. So thanks, at least somebody's not afraid to cut the bullshit
and tell it like it is.
From: "Matt Keefer" "email@example.com"
Subject: Love the disclaimer!!
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:40:20 -0400
Hi, I have to ask: is that diatribe, written by a professed "nice guy"
[If you can consider anyone that messed up to be "real". We don't make this shit up.]
If so, that's pretty fucked up. I thought that people like
that only existed in Faustian morality plays. Here's
some disorganized tips for all the "nice guys" out there:
1) Nothing ventured, nothing gained. This can be applied to anything. Risk rejection once in a while - a "no" does not denote that you're an inferior example of manhood. It means that she's not interested right now. This counts when in a relationship too. Be daring and initiate the conversation once in a while, and if she doesn't agree with you, so what? She's entitled to her own opinion, and hasn't signed anywhere a contract that states that you own her life. 2) "I love you" is tricky. Use it when you mean it, not constantly. Saying it more does not make it more true. It starts to resemble a verbal electric fence if said too often: "Please remind me that I'm a caged animal again".
3) If you break up, get over it. Don't stalk, plead, etc. Suck it up. You broke up for a reason, and making a fool of yourself isn't going to make that reason go away. It's more likely to get you arrested.
4) Don't take yourself so seriously. The world isn't a black and white place, where you're right and everybody else is wrong when they disagree with you. If you can't approach difficult situations with a little humour, you're never going to break the ice with a woman, much less make any friends.
5) Guilt trips suck. If you think that the only way to keep your relationship together is to lay down the guilt, forget it. If a relationship looks like it's over, smells like it's over, and sounds like it's over, chances are that it's over, and prolonging it with some contrived B.S. is pathetic.
From: "Dough Boy" "firstname.lastname@example.org"
Subject: Nice Guys
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:39:23 -0700
Dear Heartless Bitches, I loved your Nice Guys article.
It's just the kind of stuff my friend needs to read. He is the epitemy
of nice guys and your article describes his behavior right on target.
Thank you for writing the article and I hope that it helps him
become a better man because everyone knows, nice guys finish